CAGS Submission on Equal Marriage

Question 1:

Do you agree or disagree with enabling all couples, regardless of their gender to have a civil marriage ceremony?

Agree.

Question 2:

Please explain the reasons for your answer.

On behalf of Croydon Area Gay Society (CAGS), a social and campaigning group with LGBT members in and around the LB of Croydon. With about 100 members, we are mostly older, male, have a few religious members, mostly of Christian faith. See www.cags.org.uk.

There are a few areas in which civil partnership is not equal to marriage because it is not called “marriage”:

• It outs people filling in various forms.
• Same sex marriages are recognised in some other countries where civil partnership is not.
• Firms that need employees working in other countries are not obliged to offer the same benefits to civil partners at as to spouses, and sometimes they haven’t done so. This is especially important with non-UK companies.
• Civil partnership doesn’t protect partners whose relationship fails, if one partner goes abroad where civil partnership is not recognised.
• This can be particularly fraught where the couple’s children are involved.
• There are inequalities in pension provision.
• The cost of registering religious premises for civil partnership is often higher than registering them for marriages.
  

These and other equality issues would be addressed if marriage was opened to same sex couples.

Question 3:

If you identify as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transsexual would you wish to have a civil marriage ceremony?

Yes.

Question 4:

If you represent a group of individuals who identify as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transsexual would those you represent wish to have a civil marriage ceremony?

Yes.

Question 5:

The Government does not propose to open up religious marriage to same-sex couples. Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree – religious marriage should be opened up to same-sex couples

Question 6:

Do you agree or disagree with keeping the option of civil partnerships once civil marriage is available to same-sex couples?

Agree.

Question 7:

If you identify as being lesbian, gay, bisexual and were considering making a legal commitment to your partner would you prefer to have a civil partnership or a civil marriage?

This question doesn’t apply to me.

Question 8:

The Government is not considering opening up civil partnerships to opposite-sex couples. Do you agree or disagree with this proposal?

Disagree– civil partnerships should be opened up to opposite-sex couples.

Question 9:

If you are in a civil partnership would you wish to take advantage of this policy and convert your civil partnership into a marriage?

This question doesn’t apply to me.

Question 10:

Do you agree or disagree that there should be a time limit on the ability to convert a civil partnership into a marriage?

Agree – there shouldn’t be a time limit.

Question 11:

Do you agree or disagree that there should be the choice to have a civil ceremony on conversion of a civil partnership into a marriage?

Yes, there should be an option.

Question 12:

If you are a married transsexual person would you want to take advantage of this policy and remain in your marriage while obtaining a full Gender Recognition Certificate?

This question doesn’t apply to me.

Question 13:

If you are the spouse of a transsexual person, would you want to take advantage of this policy and remain in your marriage whilst your spouse obtained a full Gender Recognition Certificate?

This question doesn’t apply to me.

Question 14:

Do you have any comments on the assumptions or issues outlined in this chapter on consequential impacts?

The words of the marriage ceremony need to reflect the current concept of a marriage of equal partners and possible parenting, rather than the possessive and sexual concerns of earlier centuries.

Similarly the grounds for dissolution and divorce (like non-consummation and adultery) need to be updated.

Marriage certificates should have both parents’ names on them.

These should happen even if the other proposals in the consultation did not come to fruition.

Question 15:

Are you aware of any costs or benefits that exist to either the public or private sector, or individuals that we have not accounted for?

The cost of registering religious premises for civil partnership is often much higher than registering them for marriages.

The criteria for civil partnership and marriage on religious premises should be the same, so there should be no need for a premises to register (and pay) twice.

It is difficult to see why there should be any difference in criteria or fees between religious and secular premises, and once approved and registered the registration should be valid for conducting all the relationship ceremonies envisaged in the consultation document.

Question 16:

Do you have any other comments on the proposals within this consultation?

Q3: Some CAGS members would wish to have a civil marriage.<

Q5: There is no justification for preventing a religious body from conducting a religious marriage of same sex couples if they wish to. This is a breach of religious freedom. Allowing civil marriages in religious premises would be a compromise, but it would not solve the inequality.

Q6: People who committed to a civil partnership should not be forced into something similar but different.

Q7: We should answer “Both”. Our LGB members are divided between civil partnership and civil marriage.

Q9: Members are divided on this issue.

Q11: Yes: because the couple pays for it.

We have no married trans members nor spouses of trans people. However, trans people who had to annul their marriages or civil partnerships should be allowed to formally reinstate the gap in their relationships and be compensated as far is this is practicable.